Silent Inflammation: Why Normal Labs Miss Ovarian Aging

All right, welcome back to Cell to Systems. In this episode, we have a special guest, Valerie Orsoni, named one of the top 50 biohackers in the world. And man, she has been traveling around and is bringing all sorts of updates for us today. Valerie, you were recently at the Healthspan Conference in Los Angeles. Then you were at Stanford, uh, where you were named a citizen scientist by, uh, the head of your program. And on top of that, you were at the Buck Center, uh, looking at women's aging today. So you have a lot to share with us. Uh, let's start with the Healthspan conference and sort of what were the key takeaways from that.

So the Healthspan was in Los Angeles, uh, fourth edition. And you know, it's interesting. You have so many conferences nowadays that sometimes you're like, "Hey, I'm seeing the same thing over and over. What's the point really?" But I found new, uh, products which I had never seen. For instance, uh, there's a company, I think it's Summit Laser or something like this. And they invented a huge bed, uh, that is the first laser class 4 bed in the world. I don't know how — um, I have — I don't know about health considerations and potential risks or whatever, what happens, but I found the idea very sexy that you could have your own, or maybe in a spa setting, but your own class 4 laser kind of modality. A lot of us have a medical laser class 4, sometimes prescribed by a friend or something who's in the medical world, um, but a full bed — I mean, the — the potential of use for this is just massive. So that's something I've never seen before. It was the first time ever.

Wow, that's, uh, that's an interesting, uh, an interesting idea. Craig, you have a take on that?

Yeah, is — so, um, what is it, like red light therapy, or is it — is it, um, you know, cold laser therapy, or what?

What? So it is, um — it's not — it looks — well, if you don't know anything, you look at it, it looks like potentially it could be a regular photobiomodulation bed with, you know, different len — wavelengths, sorry. Um, but it's not. It's pure laser class 4. There is no near infrared, there is no nothing like this. It's — I — the price point may be very high, uh, so it is a medical device. I am pretty sure that no one like me can buy it. Has to be — I think it's a B2B product. Um, but for some people who need applications of laser class 4 on larger areas of the body, I mean, that's amazing. You just, you know, sit — and not sit, you lay down naked in that, looks like a pod, like a big pod. Just imagine a pod, and you are laying down, and you have top and bottom, you have laser class 4 bombarding your body.

So for management of, like, chronic pain or any sort of, you know, other cellular energetic issues, basically?

Yeah. So again, I'm not the scientist behind this, but what was said was really acute pain management with different settings. Um, also, uh, mitochondrial activity activation. Uh, pretty much all over the board for longevity enthusiasts. You know, it's like — it's not — it doesn't do everything. It's not going to do the dishes for you, but it's pretty powerful.

Nice. Very cool. Really cool. Love to give one of those a try.

Yeah, I'd like to check. I think it's only $150,000.

'Cause I mean, it's nothing.

You know what? Listen, that's — I mean, like, let me just go open — I think I have that in my, uh, in my duffel bag. Uh, what else did you find, Valerie?

You know, a lot of people — um, I'm kind of opposed to that, but a lot of people have NAD+, um, IVs, uh, pretty much without thinking. They just go to a place, almost a bar. Let's have an NAD+ IV. And I — um, you know, you have, um, nicotinamide riboside, you have NMN, NAD, NAD+, and then NADH. And I — I actually like to go at the last level, so my body doesn't have to work so much. And so at the Healthspan, there was a vendor called BiBloom that has, I think, the only one in the States, a little patch on which you can put pure NADH, and then you just put it in an area where the skin is very thin. Then you get an infusion right away of, you know, pure NADH. They even have it in an injectable form, uh, where you get a real boost. I tried it, and I can tell you, okay, people can say it's placebo, but I've tried it so many times. Uh, it — it's really powerful. So that's, to me, also is the next step. You don't need an IV anymore, just a little patch. You have to be careful. Lots of, you know, people out there trying to take your money. So I appreciate that it's a good brand, and it's serious, and have COAs, and, you know, certificate of analysis. So make sure you have a good product. That's what — that was one also of the big things at the Healthspan Summit.

So it's a — it's a patch that delivers NADH without the application of anything to the patch? It's just all —

So you have a little vial. You take a few drops from the vial, in which you have — you reconstitute. You have a little powder. It's kind of like a peptide thing. In — in fact, it's — you — you have a powder. You press the powder thing. It goes into the vial with a, you know, like a — a neutral liquid, kind of like bacteriostatic water or the — or the like, and then you mix it. You swirl it, take a little dropper, and put — drop a few drops, like about 10 drops, on the patch, and then you just put it here.

Wow, that's pretty wild. That's pretty wild. Was this a well-attended conference? I mean, I've definitely heard of Healthspan Summit. Was it — was it pretty —

So it was a mix between B2B and B2C, and so it's not like 5,000 people, but it was quite a large crowd, and, uh, I had a standing room when I talked, so I was like, oh, it's a lot — lot of people. It was pretty large. You had two levels, and so it's not everything is confined in one little thing. It's like two big rooms and then even outdoor spaces. So it was pretty grand, pretty large. Uh, they will do it again next year in LA. So if you guys are looking at Healthspan Summit, uh, that's a place you can go, LA, every year, um, to really look at everything that's happening in the world.

What's your favorite — like, what's your favorite, um, you know, conference that you will attend?

Oh, come on. You want me to be banned from — no, this — there are conferences which don't invite me. I think they don't like me. Uh, I don't — I don't know why, but, um, I really love the Biohackers World Conference, to a point where I speak at all of their events, and they have six or five next year, and even one in San Francisco in March. We have to go. Um, they have in New York, Chicago, uh, Los Angeles, Miami, San Francisco now. It's pretty large, like 3,000 people and around. Uh, lots of great modalities. Um, and I like that they have speakers like me who don't have to sell something, because a lot of conferences, they have speakers who just are doing a sales speech, and I don't like it. I don't pay a ticket to send to a sales speech. I can go online, that. So they have people like me who don't have a supplement or something magic to sell, and I think it's the right balance, you know. So I like this.

Um, in November I'm going to Amsterdam to the HoloLife Summit, or conference. Uh, HoloLife is kind of on the fringe of regular conferences. It's a little bit more, um, out of this world. It's — it's a bit intense. It's original. It's full of energy. It's a mix of, uh, science — science data, and a lot of fun, and also cutting-edge techniques and modalities for longevity. So, this is in Amsterdam. It's a big one.

Nice. Interesting. HoloLife.

Yeah.

Started thinking about HoloLife. H-O-L. I got it.

Yeah. Yeah, you should come. I'm going to wear this crazy — over there, you can wear crazy stuff. So, I'm going to wear a crazy gown when I talk.

Well, I might have to go just for that. So, Valerie, tell us what happened. What's going on at Stanford? You're down there yesterday. Uh, you're in this program. Tell us about the program. Tell us what's going on. What are you guys working on?

So, I, uh — I'm a student. Uh, I — I love the — the person in charge of this certification. His name is Ranjan, this — this powerhouse of a guy who's invented so many things and sold so many techniques and tools and stuff to the big companies like Apple, and he's in the — in charge of the, like, the longevity, uh, research lab at Stanford. And they offer amazing classes and certifications, and that's what I'm — I've been studying right now. It's really about AI applied to longevity, and that's for you, Jock, you love AI so much, but how to use AI to build longevity tools. And to me, AI is — is a double-edged sword. I hear so many people — I'm sure Craig is going to like that. I hear so many people who have no clue about health and AI. They take their lab report, they put it in ChatGPT, and I say, "Hey, ChatGPT, how am I doing?" This is the worst way to use AI, because it — ChatGPT, they like to tell you what you want to hear. So if it's — if the results are not great, and you say, "Is it that bad?" they're going to try to make you believe it's not that. And so you have to know how to do it.

I think when we talk about AI and the application inside of health care, you know, number one, you could get some good information out of AI, supplemental to working with a provider, in my opinion. But at the end of the day, you got to be really careful. And oftentimes, you know, I've done something where I've assembled a team, and, you know, I'll come back and I'll push back on that and say, that's not right, and here's why it's not right, and now you need to go do. So, what I did is I put a layer in. I said, "Anything that you bring to me must have a randomized control trial or peer-reviewed data behind it if it's definitive. Don't give me a bunch of stuff that you just kind of, like, hallucinated." And, um, it's about refining it down. You can use these tools, but I think, you know, it's still — we're still in the wild, wild west. Uh, you know, for — for those people that can remember, this is kind of like You've Got Mail, you know, in terms of where I think we are with AI. It's so far back. Um, you know, is like in the early '90s of, uh, of where it's going to be. And we're talking about models getting slowed down. Uh, Dario Amodei basically talked about slowing down models. A lot of people are talking about slowing down models because of potential risks associated with them. So we'll see how that applies.

And it's a bit late.

Yeah, it is a little late. You're right. And, you know, if there's a place where you would want to be with regards to AI in health care, there is no better place to be than Stanford, because of the fact of the matter is that's the best, uh, applied, uh — and, well, I would say, uh, foundational and applied programs that you can find anywhere, in my opinion. You're getting much more of a foundational-level understanding of how this stuff would actually work.

And then today you're up at the Buck Research Institute. This is, for those of you who have never been there — the Buck is in Novato, California. It's a pretty impressive — uh, you see it from the freeway. It's up there, and it's massive. Um, and they have been working on anti-aging for some time, a long time, um, many years. And so today, what the conference was, was about women and aging. Correct?

It was really — yes. But there was a focus on ovarian aging and how it's been overlooked for decades, and pretty much until now. And what's very important is the scientist presenting her research today was named by Time magazine as one of the 12 trailblazers in longevity. So that's — that's quite something. And she's been making so many discoveries on ovaries, not only on fertility, which is the obvious application of her research, but also she's finding out why, as we age, uh, ovaries can become a weapon against ourselves. And we need to find a way to clean what they call the debris of, you know, hundreds of thousands of follicles over the course of our year — of our life. How to clean those debris, which apparently are the ones making us more sick than we should be. And so these debris that are kept in the ovaries are — are, um, producing a lot of inflammatory compounds, and being able to remove those debris would be kind of — not kind of — would be life-changing for women. So that was pretty much the talk of today. If — I think a huge part of longevity rests in the ovaries. So yeah, that's going to be big.

Any proposed mechanisms or, like, therapies that are, you know, sort of coming to the fore as being targets to clean the debris?

Yeah. So it's still hush-hush. They are — I think the ultimate goal for this team is to find — they are looking at therapeutics that could be used. I think there will be a patent somewhere. So maybe that's why they're not really telling us what it is. But yeah, that's the ultimate goal, is finding how to therapeutically eliminate those debris.

So we — we say therapeutically, are we — I mean, maybe we just don't know, but it sounds to me like a patent — is that a patent on an actual procedure? Is that a patent on a therapeutic?

I think it would be a drug. They're looking for drugs.

Yeah.

To do that.

Okay. Interesting. So essentially this drug would then release the follicles that are held within the ovaries.

Um —

Not the follicles themselves, the destroyed follicles. We have, when we're born, like a million, and then it goes down to 300,000 when you are at puberty, and then maybe a thousand when you're postmenopausal. But all these things have been destroyed. All these follicles have been destroyed by the body. All these eggs have been destroyed, and they haven't been — we think they're destroyed, and I don't know, somehow they disappear somewhere in the void. But no, they are captured and kept in the ovaries, for the most of them, and the vast majority is there. So apparently by keeping those, um, I don't know, junk, uh, it's — it's actually creating a higher level of low-grade inflammation. A lot of people over the age of 50 have a hs-CRP, which is a inflammat — inflammation marker, that's over, you know, two or three, which for regular medicine purpose is okay, but for longevity enthusiasts like me, you want to be under 0.5. And this low-grade inflammation very often comes from this problem with the ovaries.

Definitely more notable in females. I mean, uh, it's just not something — I see it all the time, um, in women, and I don't see it any — with — with anywhere near the same frequency in men. It's always, uh, menopausal or post-menopausal females, and a lot of times is co — you know, coinciding with — with metabolic disease. But even in women who, you know, have normal, uh, fasting insulin levels, no glycemic dysregulation on their labs, and so forth, I mean, it's — it's apparent that there's something else contributing to this inflammatory cascade. Um, I — I just had a patient today that, you know, all of her other metabolic markers dialed in, right? Uh, lipids were great. Uh, insulin was great. Homocysteine, myeloperoxidase, all low, within normal. Um, and all of these, uh, things looked great. And then here's this background C-reactive protein that I'm like, hm, you know, where is this really coming from? Um, a lot of times, you know, this is an area — we talked about this on — on the podcast previously, Jock — but, you know, where you got to probe sort of their oral health. Is there — there's some, you know, dental infection that's gone awry, or dysbiosis and whatnot. But that's interesting to think about this whole area of, well, the ovaries holding on to this, you know, the — the contributing to the SASP, right? The whole, um, senescent profile. Um, so yeah, I'm really fascinated by that. I'd really like to hear more.

Yeah, I think the, uh, one thing I would say is the Buck is, you know — with all of the changes that we've seen and how funding is working, uh, currently — Dr. Oir Klein said it to me best once: uh, science benefits from stability. And when we're so close on so many things, making so much progress at this point in time, uh, to see the Buck sort of struggling with, uh, funding, um, is, um, disheartening. I — I feel like they do so many great things and have been doing so many great things up there, and they're always trying to bring people in and make it available to people. Uh, I would encourage people who are watching this show to, uh, reach out and support the Buck Institute, because they're doing tremendous work up there, and I always would love to be there, because I think, you know, they — and they do a bunch of great online stuff, too. They'll have all sorts of, like, webinars.

They have two free courses, two free longevity courses. You just go to the Buck Institute, you sign up, and that's pretty much it. Voilà. You have access to everything.

Yeah. Really, really good stuff.

So Valerie, you were, um, in Tahiti, Bora Bora, right? And you got sick when you came back. Did you ever figure out what that was?

Yes and no. Uh, so the idea is — so, uh, Craig, so what happened is I landed back from — I usually spend a month a year in Tahiti, and I landed back from Papeete, went home, and the first few things that were strange is I — I bit in a strawberry, and I was like, oh, it's disgusting, and I threw the strawberry away. And apparently it was not disgusting, it's just my taste. I'm like, okay. Then I tried — I opened a — a box of, like, homemade paleo whatever crackers, and I — I smell, I was like, oh, it's foul. I threw it away, and it was not foul. And I was like, hold on a minute, if it — the taste is off, and I felt a bit tired, maybe I have COVID. I tested. Of course I was negative — and not of course, it was negative. Then I had dinner and everything. And then at one point I'm covered in hives. Um, from actually — talk to — like, I was itching, scratching myself like a drug addict in full withdrawal. I was like — and then somehow at one point I'm like — I couldn't breathe. My chest was constricting. Then my tongue started to swell. And thank God I've done so many expeditions, like, you know, to the South Pole and crazy things, that I have a big medical. So right away I injected some epinephrine. Adrenaline is the same thing, by the way. Some people are like, "Oh my God, epinephrine. I would have done adrenaline." Well, it's the same thing. Um, I also had dexamethasone. Uh, but I waited for the dexa. I went to the ER. I went to the ER like this.

Um, and I was really shocked by the way they handled it. They were like, "What did you eat?" I'm like, "Well, salmon and stuff." "Okay, well, maybe it's a food allergy." I'm like, "No, I've been eating salmon forever." Okay, granted, you can develop an allergy overnight, but it was — and they didn't even do an allergy testing. At one point — it's a kind of gory thing, but I threw up some red stuff, which could not have been a strawberry, since I spat it out. It looked like blood, and I said, "Are we going to analyze that?" And they say, "Nah, no need." I'm like, "Okay." So, it took me two hours to feel okay and go back home.

And what people think, all my friends who are in the medical field or in, you know, the allergy field, is I do a lot of deep scuba diving, hundreds, and every time I scuba dive, I get more and more, uh, reactions on the right hand, to a point where in February I was in Papua — I don't know what I touched, it was kind of deep, so — but my hand started to swell, and then I had some strange things on it. It took me three months to get rid of everything, and no one knew what it was. So I'm thinking maybe in Tahiti I got exposed to other organisms, and somehow I didn't see anything, but maybe, you know, my whole, uh, reaction was already — you know, my immune system was in overdrive. I don't know. Maybe the one thing could have — maybe this anaphylactic, severe anaphylactic shock. I did go to LabQuest after that, and they — I paid out of pocket a food — an analysis, allergy test. I'm allergic to hazelnuts. That's the only thing I could find, but not to a deadly point, like maybe medium range, that I shouldn't — send me in a severe anaphylactic shock. I did send my peptides to Finnrick, which is a — a company that tests your peptides for free, to see if there were some endotoxins in my vials, whatever, and there was nothing.

What was the proximity to, like, the — the scuba diving when this event happened?

24 hours, like 36 hours. But I scuba dive every day. So I could have been accumulating those potential reactions. I — I don't know. It's like — it's so — also, I did gain 10 pounds in 10 days over the last part of the trip, and I hadn't changed anything, and I was like — again, that could have be a sign that something was happening in the body.

Yeah.

I felt heavy, and I was like, this is strange.

That is — that is interesting. And this goes — I — I assume this is a stupid question, but I just want to ask you: all your protocols for, like, you know, pressure normalization are dialed in, I assume?

Yeah. Yes. I'm super, super duper, uh, careful. And also you don't go in an anaphylactic shock even if you don't respect your safety stops. You will have other massive problem. But no, I — I'm very good at doing it.

Some of it definitely seems like it's, you know, um, immun — immunologically mediated. And then the — some of the other stuff that you mentioned was like, huh, sounds like, you know, the — the, um, the pressurization, you know, uh, issue, like, you know, coughing up sort of, like, bloody — or, you know what I mean? Um, huh, that's wild. But it went away with the, uh, epinephrine and the dexamethasone.

So the epinephrine was absolutely in no way, shape, or form enough. I don't think I would have made it just with the epinephrine. I really needed a massive dose of dexamethasone, for sure. That was scary. I was like — now I have two EpiPens with me here, just in case I don't know, something falls on my head, and I don't know.

Yeah. You texted me, and I was like — I was like, oh, uh, I thought — I thought you were still there. That was the thing. And — and then we were communicating, and I was like, "Oh man, I — I thought you were, like, there." I was like, really worried, 'cause I'm like, "Oh, I wonder what the health care is like for her down there, and, like, this is — doesn't sound good." Um, but I'm glad that it all worked out and you're back to your normal self.

Out of curiosity, when — when you had that with your hand, did you just have, like, continuous, like, pitting edema in the right hand for, like, three months? So, like, you just press it and you can just see?

No, that's the thing. No. So it happened two years ago already, in another place of the world. So it's different places, always jellyfish-like animals or organisms. Two years ago I had something where I was stung by a tiny little jellyfish. Nothing happened for three days. On the fourth day, the hand was doubled the size, and it — I was told the toxin had hidden in a muscle, in the muscle, and somehow, I don't know, grew there. I don't know what they did, but at one point it came out, and it took me quite, like, two weeks to get rid of it. Now in Papua, what happened is I had 10 days of strange, you know, swelling and red stuff, maybe — I don't know what type of liquid was coming out, maybe lymph, whatever. It went away, but then every few days I had some red dots coming out somewhere randomly on the hand. It was just itchy, nothing nasty, but it's like my body was still fighting it, you know. Strange, strange. I know. I need a Doctor House for that one.

One more question on, uh, Tahiti. Have you had the opportunity to check out, uh, Teahupo'o? Uh, I don't even know if I'm saying that right, but that, you know, famous big wave barreling surf spot that everybody goes to. Do you see that at all?

No, because I, A, never go to that area, and B, I don't surf. I go underneath. I don't. So no, I haven't seen it.

Just had to ask.

Yeah. So Valerie, you know what? For our viewers who may not know you, although you're pretty well known, you want to give a little bit of background on you and all the things that you do? Because you do so many different things, and you're traveling all over the world checking out clinics and, uh, and modalities. Uh, Craig has a phenomenal clinic in Maryland. I just did a two-day intensive.

Yeah, you should — should absolutely come out here and check it out.

Yeah, I mean, really cool, really cool stuff. I did a two-day intensive with him, which was, like, the most incredible health care experience I think I've ever had.

What did you do? What did you do?

Oh, so we did a whole bunch of stuff. So, we started off with, uh, a PNOĒ metabolic breath analysis. Figured out what my VO2 max was and my fat max. Um, and then, you know, moved on into a full, you know, physical assessment, looked at labs, um, then did a bunch of PEMF. Uh, the PEMF was, like, really — for me, you know, sitting all those years of sitting in airplanes, you know, millions of miles later, right? It's going to have — it's just not good for you. It's not healthy, and it causes problems. So I — I've had — I kind of rolled out of the bed that — that morning, um, and then we did PEMF, and I was moving after that, just completely just moving around and feeling great. And, um, then we did EBO2, which was phenomenal. And I will say that in my stair workout I was a little tired. Uh, but then the next day we went — when we landed, we went straight from the airport to the gym. Did a massive workout. I took the next day off to kind of just kind of cool out, right? Uh, and then my stair workout, which is strenuous — it's that — that's not a, you know —

I know. I've seen it.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I beat the time by 5 minutes. We were really trucking and really moving, and I felt like that had a really incredible exper — that was a really incredible experience. If you see the footage on it, there was a whole bunch of, um, oxidized lipids and proteins and things that were in that fluid that came out from my blood. It's a closed circuit. You know what EBO2 is, so I'm not — I don't need to explain.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, this is just the next level up, but it — it was really, you know, a cool experience. Uh, Craig took me through that. Of course, we did some, uh, some ketones, sort of a control trial in the — in the clinic on the ketones. Took some ketones together and just sort of saw how we all felt. Um, there was a group of us there, and that was great. We did an InBody, uh, which, you know, I do those on a regular basis, um, along with DEXA scans. I use both of them for different reasons, and, uh, it was cool. It was — it was great to see it. It was interesting to see that I did an InBody the day before I left, and that it was identical the next day in, you know, across the country, from flying. So, you know, no — I thought there was going to be some sort of disparity between the two, but there wasn't.

Then the neural therapy, that was really cool. Um, essentially a procaine injection into a cluster of nerves in the neck. Uh, so it's called a ganglion block. This is something you would love.

Yeah, we also did the, uh, inferior hypo — hypogastrics to you, or for you, as well. Yeah. So, um, a couple of injections into the pelvis. There's, uh, two inferior hypogastric ganglia, sort of on either side of the pubic symphysis, um, uh, adjacent to the bladder, underneath the pubic bone. Um, and, you know, there's another one in the belly, uh, called the celiac ganglion. Um, and, you know, we did the stellate in Jock's — the left side of, uh, Jock's neck. Um, but, you know, procedure — absolutely should, and you'd probably love it. Uh, it really is, as Jock described it, unlike anything else you sort of experience up until that point that you receive it. It's just — it's very different.

What's the idea? Well, what's the purpose?

Yeah. So procaine is what we know historically as Novocaine. It's a short, relatively short-acting anesthetic. Its anesthetic properties last roughly around 20 minutes. Um, it has — unlike other drugs like lidocaine, bupivacaine, Marcaine, things like that — uh, you know, it is short-acting. Um, and it has two very beneficial metabolites, uh, PABA, or PABA, and DEAE. Uh, and these are responsible for improving acetylcholine signaling, uh, throughout the body. Um, it's — uh, they're associated with enhancements in microcirculation. So, um, improving blood flow and nutrient delivery, um, and they have very calming properties on the central nervous system. So when you get procaine, no matter whether you sort of get an injection in your foot, or you get an injection into any of these ganglia that we typically target, um, or if you get it IV, it has this interesting calming, uh, effect that we often liken to, like, one or two glasses of wine. Though it — you know, correct me if you feel I'm wrong, Jock — but it feels distinctly different from that.

Oh, I — you know what I would say is, it's like hitting the reset button. You know, it's like when I had, uh, the second wrist surgery on my right wrist, I was in so much pain all the time. So, you know, at Stanford, they cut out some of the — Dr. Chang, Jim Chang. Shout out to Dr. Chang. They cut out some nerves, and they shaved down some bones because of bone on bone in the wrist, you know. So, super painful, right? I had the block in, and for three days after the surgery, I just couldn't move my arm at all. I mean, it was just dead, right? So, it's in a, you know, in a sling, but you just really can't move it. It's just the weirdest thing. You can't — can't control it. But what was really interesting was it felt like I was breathing out. It felt like I was letting go of — like, I didn't realize just how much tension and pain I was carrying in that, you know, in that area.

And this was like that. This was like, all of a sudden you have this thing, and you go, "Whoa, wow." It hits that — that cluster of nerves, and everything feels like relaxing times 10. You go into this whole another kind of, like — I — it's hard to really describe it entirely. There's some, like, lightening feeling, you know, that you've got, like — you know, there's, like, everything around you seems a little — like, it was funny, Craig had, like, the Beatles on, and there was this song from when I was, like — I can remember this when I was a kid, you know, this one particular song that I can remember listening to that song and running around in my backyard, and I was like, what? I felt like I was back to being a kid again. And in that moment, it was kind of emotional. I have to say, I felt like a little bit — I felt very, uh — as the Church Lady on Saturday Night Live would say, I felt a little clemp. There was a moment right there. Um, and it was — it was really cool. It was cool because I was with Craig. So, you know, you know, it's not somebody — it's something that I think — I think you really need to have a relationship with the provider of this. Um, it — it is — it is a unique experience.

Super cool. I think I would love that. Had — I've been working on some strange pain that no one has figured out for the past two years in the right hip, and there's nothing going on as far as, like, osteoarthritis. There's nothing going on bone-wise. I think it's the superior cluneal nerve syndrome, where you have a small muscle that's always contracted above the glutes, really. And it could explain why I have pain sometimes all the way up to the kidney and then down to the glutes. And I'm trying to see how can I force that thing to relax, but that would be the treatment.

Absolutely. I mean, you can give, you know, trigger point injections with procaine, you can deliver it IV, you can hit any of these ganglia. Um, it is sort of hard to describe, but Jock's 100% right. There's sort of, like, some, you know, aarency is of light that, you know, your perception just feels a little bit different. Uh, but it can be very calming, relaxing. It's great for chronic pain. It's great for PTSD. You know, it helps patients sort of experience the breadth of their emotions in a way that's man — manageable to them.

For example, I just had a patient last week, um, who had an unfortunate breakup with — with her boyfriend, um, and she has a history of, like, suffering from insomnia when she goes through these breakups. She just lays in bed, and her head is reeling, uh, and she can't get to sleep, and so she has a lot of accumulated sleep debt and sleepless nights. Um, and we gave her, like, you know, we did one, uh, shot in the neck. Um, got through it, five minutes later, you know, gave the second and third doses at the same time, and boom, we hit that stellate. Like, she had the perfect Horner's. You can — if you hit the stellate, you get a — a positive Horner's, uh, response. And, um, so, you know, she had a good response. It was new for her. She's never done this before. Um, and then I touched base with her a couple days later, a few days later, and she's like, "Yes, I'm doing so much better. I'm sleeping. I haven't been perseverating on my boyfriend and this failed relationship." So, yeah, it's really unique therapy. Definitely give it a try. I mean, if you're ever in the area, we would be happy to treat you.

I will go to Maryland just for that.

Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. You know, so if there's anybody that's going to adventure to go do it, it's Valerie. Uh, she's climbed 45 high-altitude peaks. I don't think I know anybody who's done, you know, kind of gotten after it in the way that Valerie has. You — you really are truly — I mean, the South Pole, uh, Antarctica —

That was intense.

— that was in that. Yeah, share that. That's why we're here. I mean, that — that's — that's a good one to talk about.

Well, first I climbed Vinson, which is the highest peak in Antarctica, Mount Vinson. It was minus 60 degrees on top, just so you get a — an idea of the cold. Um, and so after climbing Vinson, uh, I toppled down several times. I was with a guy who was going so fast. My legs are short, and I kept on falling, which means I ruined my big toes, which in real life you don't care — you wear flip-flops in California. But after that, I was skiing to the South Pole. So my feet were, like, so hurting. And I skied to the South Pole. Get to the South Pole after — it's super long, it's exhausting, you don't have comfort, you don't have anyone to build your tent at — by minus 40 degrees at night, you do it yourself. I get to the South Pole, and — and we're told that the entire continent of Antarctica is locked down, because it was during COVID, and there was one case. Um, the only pilots who would — would fly to Antarctica, who knew how to land on blue ice, are from Iceland and/or North Canada. And when they go back to Iceland, they would have parties and go to, you know, whatever, bars. And so one of them came back infected, and instead of just putting him in a quarantine 50 yards away from everyone, they decided to close down the entire continent for a few weeks. So I stayed stuck over there, which was still a cool experience.

Wow. I've got two questions for you on — on this topic. Uh, number one is going to seem out there, but I have to ask, um, because I'm very interested in this topic. Do you ever see, on any of your mountaineering expeditions — you know, you're away from all the light pollution, you've got a nice crystal-clear view of the celestial bodies, that's — you know, you can see — ever see anything funny? Ever see anything of a otherworldly nature?

Interesting. Because, just so you know, I do not have any faith. I don't believe in any god whatsoever. I am what we call an agnostic. I'm not superstitious. I don't really believe in anything crazy that's not physically tangible and touchable. But — and that's why I'm telling you something. It's like — it's because it's very strange. So I didn't see anything crazy. Even though in Antarctica you can see beautiful — the sky is — is — is — there is no darkness for 24 hours a day. It's daylight. But twice in my days of climbing, something happened that, through that day, I don't have an explanation. Some of my rational friends think my adrenaline took over, whatever. But one day I'm climbing in — in, um, in Alaska, on, uh, Denali, and there was a storm. I was — I was climbing always with a girlfriend. We had this badass pink sleds that you can see in the storm. I was exhausted. It was cold. I was hungry. You know, I just couldn't put one foot in front of the other. And at one point I — I swear I felt something pushing me, but physically. I even turned around, which is ridiculous. It was only the two of us at that time on the mountain. I turn around, I'm like, whoa. And I felt this physical push. And when I say that, people think I'm crazy, or maybe I was hallucinating. I'll never know. When I reach my friend — because when you climb, you're never next to someone. You have a few meters of rope between, in case one of us falls in a crevasse. I said — and she's a very religious girl — I said, "Cuzia, something happened. I felt the push." And she was like, "It's the push of God." I'll never know what it was. If maybe my mind helped me in that moment, if something — I don't know, but it was a very intense experience.

That is so cool that you have done all those mountains. I — I think Jock knows, but when I was in my 20s, I had this sort of lofty goal of, hey, I'm going to get into mountaineering. Here I am, this, you know, kid from one of the flattest parts of the United States. And, uh, I'm like, thinking I'm going to go start climbing mountains. I — I went up to altitude one time previously, Vail, Colorado, when I was in fifth grade, and I got terrible altitude sickness and had to be, like, you know, uh, snowmobiled down the mountain from the — from the summit. Um, but anyway, I got it in my head that I was going to go do this. So I did train and did, uh, do an expedition on Mount Rainier, and I had it in my sights to, after that, do, you know, like, Denali and Aconcagua and Koto and, like, you know, see where I could take this.

All of those. Yeah. Amazing.

Amazing. And I heard, you know, your story about, like, Ama Dablam, and, um, you've done, like, uh, K2 and Annapurna and —

Nope. I am not going on your agenda, or — no. I don't want to go to 8,000 meters. It's bad for the brain. You can't be a biohacker in longevity. I decided — as a matter of fact, this year I lost a lot of my dear climbers in the mountains. As a matter of fact, my entire climbing team of Antarctica, to the — is dead, except my girlfriend Vanessa. But the men are all dead today.

Oh.

Yeah, it's — it's — gives me goosebumps. Um, and then I lost another one, and another one. It was a lot of people this year, was very dramatic, in Nepal, but also in Russia, on Lenin Peak. And I was supposed to go back to Ama Dablam in next April, right? And with Vanessa we're like, oh my God, what — the only survivors, maybe we should stay away from the snow for a moment. So I canceled my expedition for next year. But then there was the whole thing about my brain, and I'm like, listen, up to 6,000, it's not great, but it's not dramatic. You can still have so much fun to 6,000 meters, about 20 — 20,000 ft, 21,000 ft. It's still amazing. Between 21 and the top, top, you are killing your brain, even in one expedition. And I don't want all my efforts biohacking to be destroyed by this passion of mountaineering. I'll just make it down a little bit, you know, less high and more lower mountains.

There's — there's a lot that you've got to do, and you — you're going to need your brain for that.

Exactly. You know that, um, just four years ago I did my first full-body MRI, and they found 15 lesions in my brain. Okay? And, um, like, uh, type of ischemia-type, you know, lesions. That's a lot. 15 at 52 years old, it's a lot of lesions. And I was told first it's irreversible, but then my nickname is the Queen of, you know, the Irreversible. So I said, watch me. But also, we were like, why? I don't have any of the — of, you know, the usual suspects, you know, a high blood pressure, whatever. No, I have nothing. And I came to the conclusion that it was because of mountain climbing. But long story short, even though these are irreversible, I went down from 15 to 11 last year, and from 11 to 9 this year, which means they are in fact reversible.

Wow. Fantastic. That's — that's great.

Yeah.

It's interesting. You did, uh — you — you've, uh, improved your vision by 18%.

Yeah. Yeah, these are not prescription, because they make me look cool. But yeah.

Well, you don't need a lot to make you look cool. And the good news is that those are blue light blocking glasses, right? So for when you're under the lights, uh, that — that helps to, uh —

I have to wear them, because I'm under the lights so much that if I don't, my eyes get totally tired.

All right. Well, we've covered a lot. You're going to Amsterdam. Um, when you come back, we — come join us again, and tell us what happened at Holo — Holo — what is it, Life? HoloLife?

HoloLife.

Yeah, we want — we want to hear all about it, and anything that you're doing from now and till then, and, um, yeah, keep in touch with us. We, uh — we want to keep tracking with you, Valerie, and — and making sure that we, uh, get the updates on everything that you're, uh, you're up to.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah, and how inspiring. I mean, like, you know, the fact that you're doing what you're doing, like, absolutely incredible. I mean, nobody's doing that. Some people are doing that. You're doing that, but there ain't many of you. So I find your story, especially all of the mountaineering expeditions, to be very, very inspiring and remarkable. Um, and, uh, I wish I had your life, uh, in that sense, and — and especially with scuba diving. But would love to hear the updates from Amsterdam, and, uh, yeah, thank you for being here today.

Thank you very much.

All right, everyone, you heard it here. Uh, we'll be talking to Valerie in the future on Cell to Systems. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe. And that helps us get the word out, because so many of you who watch the show still have yet to subscribe. And when you subscribe, it helps the algorithm to get it out to more people, uh, which helps us bring high-quality guests like, uh, Valerie. And Valerie, I love to think of you more as maybe, you know, a correspondent for us. That would be great if you could be that. So, we'll see you on the next episode. And, uh, until then, stay happy and healthy.