How Cleaning your Blood has reached another level: EBO2 Explained

Extracorporeal blood oxygenation and ozonation, which is also known as EBO2, the next level beyond EBO, also known as EBOO, uh, is hot. I just had it done at Craig's clinic, what, about a month ago, right, Craig?

Yeah. Yeah, about a month ago.

I mean, so it was a — it was a really interesting experience. But before we go there, let's get into what is it and why, uh, would we be doing it?

So, EBO2, it's one of the therapies that has been gaining popularity in the United States. But it may be great for us to even go back and say, you know, what is ozone, right? So when we think of oxygen, the gas that we breathe, we are dealing with two oxygen atoms, and this is a colorless gas. Well, when we have a third oxygen atom that's introduced, uh, we end up with ozone. Ozone is a blue-tinted gas. Interestingly enough, it's why the sky is blue on a nice sunny cloudless day. Um, so ozone therapy was something that was introduced — really medically introduced — back in the late 1940s and the early 1950s in Germany. There were some, um, World War II soldiers who were using ozone therapy for wound care. It's continued to be used relatively widely across Europe since that time, and in the Mediterranean. Very popular over there.

The past 25 or so years, it's gained popularity here in the United States with treatment protocols involving major autohemotherapy, EBOO. There's been a shift in some of the technology that we use for these protocols such that now we are able to offer EBO2, uh, and there is a distinction between EBOO or EBO, uh, and EBO2 that we can talk about here on the show.

But EBO2, what is — what does it stand for? EBO2, what does it stand for? It's extracorporeal blood oxygenation and ozonation. So what that means is that throughout the course of the protocol, which varies in time depending upon which protocol you're running, uh, you're gently circulating blood volume outside of the patient through a closed circuit. Um, depending again upon the protocol that is being run, that blood is being filtered, it's being ozonated, and it's also running through a photobiomodulation system. Uh, so all of these things have various benefits, which I'm sure we're going to get into today. And it's, it's an excellent therapy that we're able to offer for patients, um, to treat a wide variety of, of conditions. And while it should be noted that this is not an FDA-approved protocol — it's not, you know, the tr— the go-to treatment for anything and everything, it's certainly not a panacea — the cellular mechanisms that we're looking at, the pathways that we're really looking to optimize when we do an ozone protocol, you know, they are scientifically sound, and there's good evidence there. So, really thrilled to be able to offer it here at Remedy, again, for a large variety of conditions and my patients.

I think it's, uh, phenomenal. And it was interesting to me, you know, as we did on our last episode with just, uh, talking about deload — and that would have been the perfect time to do an EBOO, I mean, or an EBO2, um, where I — you know, in that sort of deload period of time while you're trying to, like, kind of take it, it's like, get all the waste out. Um, and that would have been phenomenal.

So, in the, uh, in the clinic when I saw you, I thought what was really interesting was, like, how, like — for those that have never seen this before, uh, let me just say that, um, you can tell that Craig comes from a hospital-based environment, because the way that he handled this was really serious. He was, like, making sure that everything was dialed in. Hey, we're getting this set up the right way. Everything is flowing the right way. Uh, there was a lot going on. I wasn't really paying that much attention. I was just trying to just think about, you know, hey, I'm going to relax and let this thing happen. But, uh, got the line in, uh, on both sides, and, as you said, is a closed circuit, meaning that it's going from one arm through the process into the other. Uh, goes through a first filter. So let's talk about that. Goes through the first filter, is very much like dialysis. Borrows from the dialysis process. So in that filter, uh, it allows all of the blood cells to go through, but it also catches some other stuff. What gets caught in that? Usually in, um, in dialysis, you're trying to capture urea and potassium, uh, other stuff. So tell us what's happening with this, Craig, when, when we're going through this process.

Exactly. So we're using an actual dialysis filter. Uh, the blood is being removed from the body through a peristaltic pump. So it's continuously circulating, assuming that everything is flowing correctly, which it, it always is and always should be. Uh, the blood is being pumped actually out of the body by the pump mechanism. Um, and it's first flowing through a dialysis filter. Now, the dialysis filter is designed to capture proteins and other particles of a certain micron size. And the whole idea behind using the filter mechanism in the EBO2 protocol is that we're looking to optimize the removal and the clearance from the blood of things that are noxious to the body. These could be inflammatory proteins. These could be large lipid particles that are circulating through the blood and, and potentially creating problems, or maybe they're inflamed.

Um, you know, there is evidence from, from some, uh, preliminary studies that have happened that there's also removal of certain noxious substances such as urinary mycotoxins. I mean, if you look at the study done by Dr. Quo, uh, with Extension Health out of New York City, they did before and after quantitative labs on a patient and evaluated urinary micro— mycotoxins. They found that the urinary mycotoxin reduction from the before to the after test was down 65%. They looked at other environmental toxins, down 55%, and, uh, clearance of heavy metals down by 26% from the two treatments. So really, you know, unless you're definitely testing before and after, there's no clear-cut delineation of, this is exactly what we removed today and this is where you are now. So, you really do have to measure. That's obviously an added expense to the clinic and therefore to the patient.

Um, but you — you see the result, right? I mean, in the waste chamber there's always a collection of fluid, which would be very much akin to urine that would normally be filtered out by the kidneys, and then there's always a foam cap to that fluid. That foam is going to involve inflammatory proteins, as you mentioned, Jock, has the potential to capture oxidized lipids or inflamed lipids that are more likely to create inflammatory change in the vessels, plaque deposition. Um, there is, you know, some interesting anecdotal reports as well that things like spike protein can be, uh, cleared from this system as well.

Interestingly enough, when I onboarded the EBO2 that we have here, which came from Pure Form, which is a longevity-based clinic in, uh, Boca Raton, Florida, the trainer, uh, flew up here from Florida and she gave me her own personal story about how she got into this. She was an ICU nurse at the time when COVID started. She did receive a course of the COVID vaccine, mRNA vaccine. And as we readily are aware now, this was associated with the risk of myocarditis for a substantial portion of the population, especially young men. Um, but she did in fact develop myocarditis. She had no idea about longevity medicine, cellular medicine, and certainly no real grasp or understanding of ozone therapy at the time that she experienced that episode of myocarditis, but she was recommended to participate in this protocol. Interestingly enough, she underwent an EBO2 session and it changed her life. She said, you know, her symptoms of the myocarditis rapidly ameliorated within 48 hours after her protocol, and, uh, she had no long-term negative sequelae associated with that episode of, of cardiac muscle inflammation. So this is, uh, you know, this was presented to me when she onboarded our, our device here in the clinic, and that's what I express to my patients.

As I mentioned to you, there's no real way to qualify exactly what we're removing unless we test before and after, but you can definitely see the toxin removal in the waste chamber. You have the foam component as well. So, it's nice to see a good result. It's nice to see substantial volume. I think when you came here, Jock, you had something like 500 mLs that, um, had been filtered out as fluid, and, and a, a large foamy cap on top of that too that ultimately dissipates down into the fluid. But good, good result. How did you feel after?

You know, uh, I was tired, but I was tired from the trip overall. And, uh, you know, was that — that was just one of many things that we did over a two-day intensive. I — I just say this to anybody that wants — that's in your area, that could get to — I don't know if you even offer this, Craig, but like a two-day intensive, it'd probably be disruptive to your practice, but, you know, like that notion of actually coming in and seeing you in that way. Wow. That's on another level, man. I — I don't think I've ever experienced or heard of anybody experiencing anything quite like that. That was intense. So, yeah.

I mean, it's amazing that you were able to get through that with the, you know, recovery that, uh, you had there. There's a lot of people that come in for one of those things and they're like, "Oh," you know, they're wiped out the next day. So, everything that we went through, from the PNOE to the InBody to body composition analysis, lab review, procural therapy — I mean, oh my god, you know, that's, that's a lot to deal with. And for somebody who's really looking to get away and optimize and see the benefits that these therapies can induce, then it's an excellent opportunity, a couple-day intensive.

But, you know, ozone and EBO2 and the whole protocol, it's, it's really sort of geared around these three major elements, right? Major interventions that we're doing. The, the filtration component is just one part of the whole scheme. You know, when we're really looking at the nitty-gritty, the down and dirty of what this protocol is designed to do, we really have to evaluate what's happening with the ozonation part.

Let's come back to that. I want to go back and talk about my experience thereafter, because this smack — this landed smack in the middle of the, uh, Supercharger for me. So, you know, we're in this intense period of training, and the reality is, taking that — the flight out, uh, the two days there and the flight back, and we got one workout in during that period of time, and then we got a workout at, you know, workout at your gym, and then a workout coming off of the airplane. Um, what I would say is that it wasn't terrible, right? It was like, okay, well, it was just like taking, you know, an extra down day, um, in that training period. And what I was surprised by was I came back off of that and I hit my stair workout. I beat the time by five minutes. So, you would think that, you know, hey, after all of that stuff, man, you'd be dragging a little bit. But I wasn't. I actually came out, uh, and hit that, and hit — beat that, that time by 5 minutes, which, you know, people might look at that and say, "Oh, 5 minutes, what's the big deal?" Well, if you've done that workout or if you've seen that workout, 5 minutes is a big deal. So, it was a great experience. Um, afterwards, I think I — I, I did feel a little bit tired, as you said I would, but, you know, all I had to do was just chill out on an airplane and pretty much sleep for the entire trip home anyway. And it was, uh, it was pretty good. So, let's get into the other side of it, the other stuff you wanted to talk about.

Yeah. So, that's awesome. I mean, you know, and, and the fact that you did have some maybe enhanced resilience or, uh, increased energy levels after that initial fatigue — you know, after an EBO2 session, it's not uncommon for people to feel a little bit of fatigue, and I'll talk about why that is, but then we do want to see that they bounce back. They bounce back with a little bit more energy. So, I think that that, um, tracks with your experience.

And, uh, again, going back to what the ozone is, right? So, you know, ozone works in five main, um, proposed mechanisms, right? The first being immune modulation, right? So when we think about immune modulation, we're really looking at the ability of ozone to potentially calm excessive immune activity, and we would evaluate this in the context of something like an autoimmune condition, which, incidentally, we target autoimmune conditions and autoimmune flares with EBO2 protocols here in the clinic. The other thing is that ozone therapy does have the potential to influence and signal immune activity in states where that may be deficient. So we could look at the context of something like HIV, AIDS, cancer, a chronic infection. These are situations where the immune system has either been on overdrive and is now depleted, or is just, you know, functionally not there, as in the case of like HIV and AIDS, for, you know, various different reasons, right? So, um, the way that this works is that ozone directly interferes with or influences the cell membrane of white cells, and this further helps with signaling of certain cytokines, interference— interleukins, things that are going to ultimately shape the way the body is responding to stress. And so immune modulation is, is the first factor that we assess, uh, associate with, um, EBO2 and, and ozone therapy.

Now, the second is really in starting to involve, like, oxygen itself and how that's being delivered. And so when we look at the effect of ozone on the cell, we know that it creates — uh, it, it supports the activity of a metabolite of red cells, um, diphosphoglycerate. All right? And what diphosphoglycerate does is it promotes the uncoupling of oxygen from hemoglobin. So in certain disease states, specifically diabetes and, and other things, there can be a stickiness associated with the hemoglobin carrying the oxygen, right? Hemoglobin is the oxygen-carrying molecule in the blood that delivers oxygen to the tissues. And if the oxygen is not able to unbind from the hemoglobin, then this person is not going to get the benefit, the cellular benefit, of that oxygen, right? So activating and stimulating, uh, the diphosphoglycerate is part of why EBO2 protocols are designed to improve circ— uh, oxygen delivery to tissues, right? The uncoupling of oxygen from the hemoglobin molecule.

Issue number three is that we're also directly, uh, improving some of the endothelial nitric oxide production and heme oxygenase-1, and both of these things are helping with vasodilation and microcirculation. So we're actually able to improve capillary blood flow. So people who are having chronic stress states, they're clamping down in the periphery, right? They're not having good blood flow to all their, uh, peripheral tissues and potentially even their organs. So, we want to improve that.

Antioxidant status. Right? Another major aspect of ozone therapy is that we achieve a lot of the potential benefit by actually inducing oxidative stress. Ozone itself is a toxicant. If you inhale ozone, it's bad for your lungs. So when you give ozone under a medically directed or supervised protocol, such as ozone therapy through the blood, you are giving a defined dose. Um, and with EBO2, we're looking at generally anywhere from 25 to 35 gamma of ozone. Now, what's a gamma of ozone? A gamma of ozone is one microgram of ozone per milliliter of gas. Um, so we're essentially, you know, using that process to induce some oxidative stress in the body. All right? And that is the transfer of ions that ultimately creates reactive oxygen species that, uh, can be problematic but are also very necessary and beneficial, because they help with all sorts of cellular signaling. So when we induce the oxidative stress, the body then adapts. We've talked about hormetic stressors and stress response. Similar to going in the gym and lifting weights and having hypertrophy as a result, there's all sorts of other stress responses, and this is one of them. So the oxidative stress induces pathways that are associated with rampant uptick in the body's antioxidant defense systems, and NRF2 is the main pathway that we're targeting with, um, ozone therapy. And, uh, so we have the ability to reduce glutathione and get it back into, uh, a, a state where it's actually going to work for the body, and catalase and other things like that. Uh, so antioxidant support is ultimately what we glean from that.

And then the final thing, and this is — I, I find to be pretty interesting — is that we're really working on energy production and mitochondrial pathways as well, because what we know is that, uh, reduced NAD, or NADH, ultimately likes to be transformed back into NAD+. Okay? So ozone will directly influence the, the reoxidation of NADH back into NAD+, and NAD+, as we've covered on this, uh, podcast before, is absolutely critical for human physiology. I mean, we need it for DNA transcription and repair. We also need NAD+ just to ultimately accept a glu— uh, an electron from glucose so that we can bring glucose into the cells and start the whole energy production. So, it's really those five pathways — of immune modulation, uh, enhanced oxygen delivery, improvements in microcirculation, antioxidant defense, and mitochondrial, uh, function — that we're looking to support with the ozone therapy.

This is actually one of the key areas where we can start to differentiate some of the technology, uh, between EBOO, EBO, and EBO2, right? Uh, because number one, with an EBO2 protocol, you're generally filtering anywhere from four to six liters of blood through that dialysis filter in the hour-long session, and you're also exposing the blood to a higher gamma of ozone. Now, standard EBO protocol will utilize anywhere from 3 to 10 gamma of ozone, continuous ozone delivery to the blood during that treatment. But with EBO2, we're using a higher gamma. We're using anywhere from 25 to 35 gamma. And, and that's substantial, because we're able to hit those signaling pathways a little bit harder and get more of, potentially, the, the benefits associated with activation of those pathways.

Yeah, it's fascinating. Um, and we'll put all of those components in the show notes, but ultimately I think the best place for people to go is your website to get information about this, because there's a lot more than we can put into any kind of, like, show notes inside of YouTube. Uh, and for those that are listening on Spotify or Apple, wherever it is that you're listening, uh, the best place to go is just go to Craig's website.

So the reality is that this has the potential to do a lot of things. Not widely studied in terms of RCTs. So we don't really have a lot of, like, data that backs up a lot of this stuff, which is probably the reason why it's not FDA approved at this point in time. However, there's plenty of evidence going all the way back into — you said World War II. My understanding was that ozone started to become popular in, in Germany and, um, Western Europe in, in the 1950s, and it's since escalated in its availability and use. Um, I have several patients that, uh, will go to the Mediterranean, they vacation in the Med— Mediterranean, and it is very popular. And if you look at those people walking around, these are healthy people, you know, so they're doing something right. And, and I know a lot of it's diet and exercise, but they do tend to avail themselves of these treatments. And, um, I, I think it shows.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I, I, I've been thinking about, as we're going through this, you know, year-long evolution, where is that going to fall next? How do we make that happen next? Because that's going to be an important portion of — I think it's going to have to happen somewhere after the next evolution. Um, because we talked about, we could do it once a quarter, right? Really, is that the — what you would say is the, the really great sort of Goldilocks zone for treatment on this?

Yeah, with an EBO2 protocol, I think that somebody who's looking to optimize their performance, they're looking to really remove anything from the blood that's circulating at the present time that could be noxious, uh, a once-every-quarter session is adequate. Now, in some of the other patient populations that I mentioned earlier — I mean, people with chronic immune insufficiency, people who have overactive immune response, autoimmune conditions, um, they will really benefit from a short burst course, right? So they're utilizing an EBO2 session weekly for a course of three or four treatments, then would recommend that they go to every — once every six weeks, then once every 12 weeks, and then from there go to more of a quarterly protocol. Uh, because it does seem to positively influence the frequency of autoimmune flares, or help get them out of a flare as well. So, it really varies from patient to patient, but by and large, somebody who's doing very well, eating clean, exercising and moving the body, sleeping well, looking to perform at their highest, you're looking at a quarterly EBO2 session as the goal for them.

Yeah, that's interesting. Thinking about going back through the blood work, taking a look at all the markers and everything that we had coming out looking pretty good. There wasn't that much that needed to adjust for me. A quarter — once a quarter would be enough, uh, according to that standard. Is that correct?

Yeah. Mhm. Absolutely.

So, I think it's just really interesting. I think it — why wouldn't you do something like this when you can — when you can get those types of things out of your body? Otherwise, that's got to be processed by your kidneys. And at the end of the day, we need to protect our kidneys. You know, renal failure is real. And it's not something that you want to mess around with, because you don't literally want to wind up on dialysis because you have to. It's kind of like going back to the last episode where we talked about a deload. A forced deload is not where you want to wind up, and forced dialysis is not where you want to wind up. You want to make sure that it's an optional kind of process. So EBO2 seems like a great preventative measure to make sure that you stay on the right side of that equation.

Um, I think what's — what's cool about it is the way that you're using it in conjunction with a whole bunch of other things. There's just so much talk about peptides and, you know, people are always coming up and asking me, what kind of supplements do you take? Uh, do you know what peptides, this kind? I always go back into this position of, man, it doesn't matter what I'm taking, has nothing to do with you. Uh, the right way to do this is to go see a functional health span longevity provider, uh, that is going to basically work with you starting with your blood work, your InBody or DEXA scan or whatever scan it is that they've got, you know, uh, then your PNOE or VO2 max, uh, and then ultimately some sort of strength analysis. Your InBody 380 has a strength analysis, right? It has a grip analysis.

We use a, um, dynamometer alongside our InBody scan. So it has, in the tech that we use and track people's results on the website, an area where you can look at skeletal muscle index and populate the grip strength, but we use a separate dynamometer to, uh, calculate that.

Yeah, it's super important to understand that grip strength is correlated with, um, how well someone's going to do, um, in terms of how — how long they're going to live or how well they're going to live during that period of time that they're alive. So, those are all things that you're taking into consideration. I think what's cool about you is, you know, for me, I'm looking at what I call performance medicine. Uh, that's where I'm trying to optimize to the highest level possible. I — I have always been somebody who's been looking at trying to stay as, uh, as young and as in shape and as whatever as I possibly could. There were certain times when, you know, that just wasn't possible through the career, uh, choices that I made. And now that things are where they are, you know, I can focus more time on that and make that more of a priority, which, as you know, as you start to age, that's going to be super important.

One of the things I just want to point out in, in all of this is that just like dementia, just like heart de— heart disease, any kind of — any kind of thing that people think just happens overnight, we know those are diseases of decades. So, I would get in early, you know. Like, the average 20-year-old today is sort of thinking to themselves, "Hey, man, I'm bulletproof," because I know, because I did that. I thought like, "Oh, you know what? I can do anything. It doesn't really matter." Whatever, right? The reality is it all starts there. So we talk about, um, you know, filtering out things that cause accumulated plaque, plaque deposition, as you called it. Uh, so plaque in the arteries, which ultimately, not great. Um, that starts early on. So it's the food that we're eating, the things that we're doing in our 20s into our 30s, 40s, 50s. And once you get there, if you haven't had some sort of intervention, it gets much harder to actually address those issues. So, you know, the one thing I would say to people who are young — um, certainly would say this to my kids — get in now and start working on the things that are going to, you know, head off — hey, I see this coming up, like it's coming up on the path. No, no, no. Push that away. You take a look at my son Jack, uh, and Oliver, uh, who basically — they, those guys are just, I mean, they're so dialed. They're so into what they're doing. Like, they really are these two kids that — I shouldn't call them kids. They're young men now. Uh, the reality is that they are just absolutely dialed in. They are not missing a beat on anything. They're not putting anything in their body that isn't, like, um, you know, top-notch. They're really, really dialed in. So, I really truly have come to the belief that it is absolutely essential for people who are young now, knowing what we know, to take action as early as they possibly can and set themselves on the right course, uh, right away. Uh, things like getting your, uh, blood tests done, like Dr., uh, um, Abid Hussein says, you know, to find out, hey, are you, are you predisposed towards coronary artery plaques that can have a huge impact on your, um, your overall health? That's a big deal.

Yeah, you're spot on. You know, the reason that it's critical is because you can be more preventive when you're on top of things. As simple as it sounds, that's the bottom line. And when somebody comes in, they're in their later 30s, they're in their 40s, 50s, 60s, what have you, you're oftentimes seeing a lot of things in the blood work and on the physical exam that have run rampant for years. I mean, problems have cascaded, inflammation has been driven high. Uh, the accumulation of environmental stressors and allostatic load and, um, all manner of things have taken their toll, traumas, what have you, decades of poor sleep. You know, it's gotten to the point where maybe it's manifested as a chronic disease state. Perhaps it's manifested, uh, in the lab work in a very profound way.

So what we see — what I see in my teenagers and 20-year-olds that come into the clinic are the initial signals, right? Um, these are the things that we would associate with a lot of genetically inherited traits, whether that's variations in things like MTHFR, which can be low B12, abnormal folate metabolism, hyperhomocysteinemia, which is a vascular endothelial inflammatory molecule, um, or, or has the risk of potentiating vascular inflammation and increasing cardiovascular risk. Um, we see COMT variations and abnormalities in how an individual will metabolize, break down dopamine, right? And this can contribute to blood pressure elevation at younger ages than we would normally associate with the onset of hypertension or, or prehypertension, um, racing heart, anxiety. Those all also correspond with, uh, COMT variation. So, looking at genetically inherited traits, we're also starting to see a lot of the, uh, genetically predisposed cholesterol individuals. That could be anything and everything from lipoprotein(a) to just excessive cholesterol synthesis in the liver, which we often associate with hereditary hyperlipidemia.

And then we're also picking up on these other metabolic things, right? We've talked forever about insulin, right? And insulin being the real, true marker of how somebody is actually managing their glucose in the body, you know. And, and the defined reference range is vast. It's anywhere from 4 to 24. Um, but really the optimal range is in that 3 to 6 zone, right? So, um, you know, when somebody who's in their 20s and they're not sleeping well, they're eating without discretion, um, and we're seeing that their blood glucose value is hovering in the mid-90s or upper 90s and their insulin level's above 10, maybe it's even up in the 20s if, if there— there's something really going on. Um, this is a problem, right? And it may not be reflected in anything else. They may be of a leaner phenotype. They may carry a little extra weight, but otherwise look great when they walk into my clinic. Um, you won't necessarily even see any issues with hemoglobin A1c or chronic inflammation that's elevating, but those two markers right there, a rising insulin level, a rising fasting glucose, these indicate problems. Okay? There is something happening there that is driving abnormalities in how blood sugar is being utilized or able to be utilized for energy generation purposes.

And that needs to be addressed, because the long-term effect of that not being addressed is, you know, the furtherance of pre-diabetic changes and, and ultimately diabetes and all of the stress that that produces in the body, the microvascular stress, the nervous tissue stress, the, um, increasing cytokine response to the inflammation, which is just, you know, it's a never-ending cascade and circle, um, that ultimately makes the person much higher risk for anything and everything from cardiovascular issues and disease to dementia and certain cancers even. So the — and obviously, you know, kidney disease, eye health, these are other major, major factors too. So to catch these things early is paramount.

And, you know, the younger the patient, the more that they — you could argue against what I'm going to say, but I feel like more than ever there's a larger portion of the population that is really interested in these things, in health-related topics and concepts. I mean, we know that alcohol use is by and large starting to plummet. People are migrating, have migrated away from, uh, tobacco products, combustible tobacco products. They're starting to see that vaping is bad. They're getting in the gym. I mean, look at a 20-year-old now. Somebody like your son Jack, you know, who's just absolute specimen. You know, people didn't look like that. 20-year-olds, 24-year-olds didn't look like that, uh, 20, 30 years ago, right? It's just a whole new level of performance and health optimization that's being unlocked by these people who are really looking to dial it in. And so they're in this period of time where they're sort of malleable and they're moldable and their brains are ready to grasp these concepts and make these changes. So I love it when I get a teenager in here, or a young 20s. They're, you know, their minds are open. They're ready to hear what we're going to talk about that day, and they're ready to make some changes because they're being proactive. So, it's always better to be on top of it than behind the eight ball when it comes to your health.

So, agree with everything that you just said, and I think the opportunity now, knowing what — what is out there. I mean, knowing what you know — I mean, let's face it, you know, if you're going in to see your PCP, they're not ordering any of these panels on people for the most part, unless you have some sort of, like, heavy-duty, like, okay, mom has a DVT, and so let's order a factor V Leiden or a heo, uh, you know, workup, just to make sure that you're not carrying anything that would make you susceptible to that. But the reality is that they're not really running these tests. So, we're in this sick care system. It's like, hey, let's wait, and then, you know, treat you with some sort of pharmaceutical at a later date, when we know that lifestyle intervention, uh, can be the key to offset. I mean, certainly there's the genetic component that you mentioned. That's, that's for real, and that's, that's something to be taken seriously. But if you're really digging in and you really have the knowledge, that's the key, the baseline and the knowledge of what you can and cannot do.

Ultimately, I think when we start to build these habits — that's one of the things the Supercharger is built around, is sort of like, okay, training super hard, made some pretty significant adjustments though in that Supercharger for a reason, and got an amazing result. I think about that the same way that I think about young people coming into your clinic, seeing you. I see that there's a lot of profit motive out there, uh, with a lot of providers. I've seen this many times before in different areas of healthcare. If you're in healthcare and technology and around this for, uh, three decades, yeah, you're going to see it. So, one of the things I'm concerned with is, you know, the people that don't want to see patients because they don't represent the cash flow that ultimately, uh, you know, that they're trying to attract. What's interesting about you, and says everything you need to know about you as a provider, is that you're like, "Hey, give me those younger patients." They're not going to spend probably as much money, right? But they are going to get the best result. And that's — ultimately says what you're really in it for. You're really in it for helping people to achieve the highest health — health outcome they can possibly achieve.

Yeah, I, I, I really appreciate that, Jock, because I, I do feel that that's an important piece of my practice, and, you know, you picked up on it, on exactly what we're trying to achieve. The benefit and the gratification that I get in my clinic here is in ultimately seeing the positive results that we are able to bring about and usher in for people in their lives. And, you know, that is, you know — there's no better feeling than knowing you've helped somebody. There's, uh, plenty of opportunity out there, and, and maybe part of it comes from the fact that I really love to educate. I, I love to talk to people. Um, I love to share what I've learned because I find it fascinating, and I'm always hoping that the person on the other side of the room from me is listening and also finding it fascinating. When I start to see their eyes dart around the room, then I know I need to rein it in. But I love to share that knowledge, and I love to express and sort of imbue, you know, why it's important and why we need to care about these things. So I, I love to do that.

I do a lot of, um — generally, you know, when people come in, kids come in. A lot of times kids and teenagers have come in from when their parents are patients in the clinic. You know, they've had a great, uh, result, they're feeling better, and they want their child to also be in peak performance, not only for school and their sports and activities, but they want their mental well-being to be at its peak as well. So, um, you know, I, I love to see those patients in the office, sit down with them for an hour, show them their baseline. This is where you're at with your body composition. This is what your labs show to me. This is what's being influenced by your lifestyle habits. And, you know, just come in and, uh, you know — they — I'll sit down with them for an hour, and I don't even charge them for the consult, because it's worthwhile for me to ultimately feel like those people know that I care about them, and, and that's the important part. I want them to know that they — that I care. I want them to actually see the benefit of what we're going to do and ultimately glean all those beneficial results.

So I, I do love to work with people. It's the same way as it was in the hospital. It's just more unrestricted. You know, in, in health care and in the hospital, you see a patient for maybe one, two, three days if they're admitted for multiple days. You, you know, go in, you do your exam, you talk to them about their labs, you, you talk to them about the therapies that you're implementing to get them through their infection, through, uh, their disease flare. Um, and, and then, you know, you're, you're sort of done, right? I mean, unless they come back into the hospital, you — you're not really able to follow with them along that trajectory of progress and improvement that then gets punted to the primary care. So, moving into longevity medicine has allowed me to really see both sides of it. You know, the, the acute sick care, which is very academic and it can be very challenging and rewarding. Um, but, you know, following with patients over time, developing that strong interpersonal relationship, being able to ask my patients, how's your family doing? You know, how was that trip that you just went on? Um, what are you going to do this weekend? That's, that's a wonderful opportunity for me. So, I love fostering those relationships. I love seeing the positive progression that the, the patient takes over time, and, uh, just totally rewarding aspect of my career here at Remedy.

You know, I, I always think about the best, best providers, uh, that I have encountered over the years, and it's truly a passion for wellness, a passion for, um, helping patients to, um, achieve the right — the right outcomes, and, and it's not really a money motive, not a profit motive type of thing. Everybody in any business, uh, has to be profitable to stay in business, right? Because you have unknown expenses. That's how business — what's — what you learn in business school. People need to pay for the services that they get, uh, and, and be happy to do so, especially when they're receiving such outstanding care. The reality is the way that things are set up today in the health care system, it just — it is — there's big disconnect. And sitting here today with you, um, you know, we're on a mission to change the way that healthcare works. That's kind of what this show is really becoming about, is helping people to understand, hey, there's a better and different way to, uh, to go about things, and it's available to you, but it's a choice. And that decision that you make to take that means maybe you're doing things differently in the way that you budget things out in your life. We've heard it a million times. Christy said it. Health is wealth, right? I mean, I think she's just spot on with that. It is so true that if we're — if we don't have our health, well, you don't have anything. You got to take it seriously.

I love what you said. The kids today are definitely, um, really geared towards this, and I think we should do more stuff geared towards them. I think that's one of the things we should work on, Craig, is trying to put together content. Let's focus on kids and, uh, or the youth, uh, and what they can do, uh, and helping parents understand. Listen, you know what? Having your kids sitting around playing Xbox or whatever it is, you know, playing video games, uh, eating food that is full of stuff that's not so great — you think it's like a — not a big deal. Uh, oh, but it is. And now we see, like, you know, it's like this kid the other day, he's flying around the, uh, island on an e-bike, and this cop comes up —

I just ordered one, by the way.

Like a lit— literally an e-bike? E-bike or, like, a ride with a — with, with one?

Yeah. So, it's, it's a Velri. They, they make nice, uh, e-bikes, but, you know, it's, it's a pedal bike. Okay? Um, but then, you know, it — you can torque it up, right? There's, there's the option to, um, or you can just sit and press a button and it'll take you up to 30 miles an hour. I just figured, you know, hey, listen, I, I live five, six miles away from my office. Um, if I can save a buck on gas and cut down on, uh, you know, gasoline consumption, and also get some fresh air in the mornings, I'm going to use the e-bike.

Uh, but yeah, I, I, I think I know where you were going with that, about, you know, using that as your mode of transportation than actually pedaling the bike. I don't want to call it laziness, but, you know, using technology to offset some of what the body can and probably should be doing, um, because it can benefit you when you exercise. Uh, you know, there's, there's a lot of that to contend with these days. You know, getting into the whole AI world, you know, what was it the other day where, uh, scientists say that AI is, is infecting human brains like a virus. Did you see that headline, where they think that there's going to be all sorts of, you know, cognitive dissonance and, and ultimately, like, a diminishment? And we've known this for a while, like, cognitive potential because of AI use and whatnot, but now it seems like there's some real deal think groups, you know, that are, that are trying to analyze this stuff and whatnot.

So, yeah, I wrote about — you know, if you take a look at, you know, Meta was just fined. Uh, first of all, there's a $5 billion fine with Cambridge Analytica, right? Uh, then there's this $18 billion lawsuit, multiple attorneys generals, uh, attorneys general across the United States. They knowingly put a product out there, designed it to be addictive to kids. Uh, you talk about, like, the kind of dopamine response, right, that you're getting from — did somebody like my stuff? Did somebody look at my stuff? Somebody — I mean, they knew, and they put the stuff out there anyway. Uh, which brings me to, some — you know, the topic that I just wrote about, which is Muse needed to launch now, because, you know — and you could see film, you could see video of me talking about this years ago about, hey, browsers are antiquated technology. We're not — nobody wants to type in to, to a browser with a bunch of stuff, bunch of ads and all this kind of stuff, trying to find the information that used to be so easy to find. Now we look at agents, a one-to-one direct interaction with Claude, GPT, Gemini, whatever, and I can get the information that I want so much faster, so much easier. Now we're moving into the agent world where we have an agent who actually goes out and figures out, you know, knows everything about you and gets you what you want. It even has a credit card. Uh, these are single-use credit cards that can be utilized, so you can never get into trouble with them. Um, so Facebook needed to launch that product, because there's a huge trust gap there. Like, you know, there's a bunch of stuff where people don't trust that — uh, they don't trust Meta, and they don't trust Mark Zuckerberg. And so what you're talking about with AI, yeah, there are serious implications all over the place. AI used properly, judiciously, is a phenomenal, uh, asset. Um, you know, full disclaimer, AI developer, right? We build AI products. So, I have to be careful here. But the — what I think is true is that people, um, are, are going to have to be careful about how much they use it, um, and, and how much they let it do the thinking for them, because you're right, it could to— it could completely diminish. It's like — a brain is a muscle, right? If we don't rep it out, uh, we're going to have a problem. I — so far for me with AI, what I found is that I use it in a way that makes me think more and gives me more access to the information that I would otherwise have a difficult time finding.

So, that's interesting. Craig, going back to EBO2, what are the things that people need to know, uh, that we haven't covered, and why should they get into your clinic? Why should people go seek out EBO2? And where can they, by the way, uh, where can they find a list of those providers that have EBO2?

Great questions. So, um, and that last one I'm going to have a little bit of difficulty with, but I will do my best, uh, to, to answer it, um, in a reliable fashion. So, one of the things that I, I just want to touch on briefly is that that whole third mechanism, right? So, there is, um, photobiomodulation involved in EBO2 as well. So part of the system is our Hemalumen device. This has six different wavelengths of light that all interacts through a glass cuvette, um, with the blood. So before it's gently circulated back into the body, it's being exposed to UVA, which is a cell stressor, forcing your cells in the bloodstream to adapt. Uh, UVC has direct antimicrobial and germicidal properties associated with it. Red light — red light, we know, has mitochondrial activating and enhancing properties. Infrared light has the potential to influence cellular differentiation and some of the various different functions that the cell, uh, will go through during its lifespan. Uh, green light can be activating for, uh, nitric oxide, right? So again, more on the side of improving blood flow and, um, you know, enhancing circulation. And then, uh, violet light is, uh, going to be, you know, supportive of cell membrane health. So, um, all of these things, you know, that, that — that's the other third cool part, um, associated with the EBO2.

You know, again, going back to your second question, which was, what do people need to know about it? You know, it is a one-on-one treatment. When somebody comes into the office for EBO2, I'm not setting them up and then going in for a consult with another patient. I'm sitting down by them throughout the duration of the protocol. We have to monitor blood glucose, because the ozone therapy does have the potential to lower blood glucose. So, we keep IV dextrose on hand, as well as snacks, in case somebody needs to, um, you know, have a bump in their blood glucose. So we're always monitoring that. Being a closed-loop system, and we are infusing air into the system, right? We're, we're, uh, using a gas tank, an oxygen cylinder, and then concentrating the ozone, and that's being fed directly into the system just after the filtration, uh, portion. So, you know, we are constantly looking at how much volume, how much blood is being taken from the body and how much blood is being infused back into the patient. We can't have any room for air emboli or the installation of air into somebody's vasculature. So, we're always monitoring, uh, that there's no air in the tubing, that it stays a closed system, that we're pulling and reinfusing at the, uh, equal rates, and again, understanding that ozone is a toxicant when it's used the incorrect way. So, using this under medical supervision in very defined doses for very defined treatment periods, that's how you got to do it.

Um, the best way to search out clinics is literally just to type into Google or your AI, um, where can I find EBO2 or EBO? Uh, those are the two best methods for ozone therapy. I will also say ozone therapy can be a great tool used alongside prolotherapy, um, or platelet-rich plasma or trigger point injections, for wound healing, for soft tissue and intrasubstance injury. So you can literally take ozone — I can take ozone from my ozone concentrator and, um, pull out, you know, 10 cc's of ozone and use that alongside platelet-rich plasma to target injury into, uh, tendons, ligaments, introduce them intra-articularly inside a joint to help promote healing, uh, lower some of the, um, you know, pain and chronic inflammatory cascade that we would associate with arthritis. Uh, so there's other modalities and other avenues by which we can use ozone to help people heal. Um, and, uh, you know, just find — find a provider, uh, get set up. There's generally a little bit of intake involved. We want to know why you're planning to use ozone therapy. We want to look at your medical history to see if you have any things that would disqualify you, um, from, you know, that, that sort of therapy. And, uh, we just want to make sure that you're safe and that we're doing the right thing to help you heal.

So, well, interesting, because we're going to be coming back in, um, a couple episodes and talking about plasmapheresis, which is going to be a hot topic coming up, I think, in 2027. It's been going on for a bit, right? But, uh, there's a — it's really starting to take off now. And when we talk about PRP, platelet-rich plasma, uh, plasmapheresis, which is the actual cleaning of or replacing of the plasma inside of the, the blood, this — the, the body just has the potential to heal so much faster. It's so much cleaner. So, we're really on this kind of, uh, clean the debris, uh, deload, uh, track right now that's going to get us into this point in time where we're talking about how do we then start to reach up. And I think there's going to be an opportunity for us as we go forward to talk more about those things openly because of what's happened with the FDA and our ability to discuss certain peptides that previously would cause us to not be able to get the show out.

All right. Well, Craig, listen, as always, a phenomenal — a phenomenal, uh, episode. This episode of Cell to Systems has been an absolute blast, and I want to thank you for participating, as always, my partner in, in, uh, and making this whole thing happen. You are a phenomenal provider and a great friend, and I really always appreciate spending the time with you.

Likewise, Jock. I appreciate your, your friendship immensely, and, uh, this was a great episode. I really enjoyed it. Love coming back here every week and talking about a new topic and ultimately seeing how all these topics influence each other, right? So, it's a great journey to be on, and I'm happy to be along for the ride.

Cool. All right, my man. We'll catch you next time. And all of you out there, please remember to like, share, and subscribe. And if you know of anyone who's interested in these types of treatments, this type of therapy, this type of lifestyle, please share it with them, because you know what? Just like that phone call that you could make to somebody in that one moment when you just thought of them, and it actually changed something for them, it could have been that critical moment. This may be a critical moment for somebody that needs this information in the way that can change their lives. So, you have the power, you have the ability. Get out there, make it happen with that share, subscribe button. Uh, also leave us a comment, because we'd love to hear from you. All right, until the next episode, we'll see you then.